[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
Porsche Enthusiasts Club Forum • View topic - Porsche 944 sill repairs, my car, some pictures

Porsche Enthusiasts Club Forum

It is currently Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:43 am
Classic Line Insurance


All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Porsche 944 sill repairs, my car, some pictures
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Dreary East Yorkshire for now.
TIPEC membership: 0
Right ladies and gents, I've been promising this for some time now, it's basically a bit of a guide as to the issues our cars have, a bit of an introduction to me, what I do and what I can do, and what I am doing to my own 944.

I'm Oliver, I've spent my whole life around cars, my first memories are of sitting in a variety of interesting and exotic cars as my Dad drove, but to be honest one of the most vivid memories is of sitting in his Sierra company car as he drove around the country collecting parts for his 911 2.2E which he restored several times over the 20 years he owned it.

I was lucky growing up as he ran a bit of a side line restoring classic cars, mainly MGs and selling them on to pay for his own cars, so by the age of 7 I could drive a car and maneuver it around the workshop, I rebuilt my first car at 13 (a carmine red Midget 1500) and then went on to win my first autotests with that car before we sold it. I bought my first car a Mini for £100, rebuilt it and sold it to buy a 1275 Midget which I ran for a few years, I bought a variety of MGs before buying my Dads old 924 off him, 250k on the clock used as his business car for years, the interior was perfect, the exterior a little tired. Welding it up by now was not an issue and nor was the respray in Diamond Silver.

21 was when I bought my first 911, a 1991 964 and I've never really looked back since, I ran my own business for 5 years, and now have a workshop back and am getting back to my roots.

So about my car?

It's a 1991 944S2 in very rare Zyclamen red, with full linen Leather and 10 speaker stereo. I have seen an identical car which was quite interesting! This car has had a vivid life, it's quite low mileage, yet in that time the first owner from Scotland exported the car out to Ireland with him when he moved with work, then reimported it back in to the UK, It then moved to London, where it ended up featured in an article in 911+P world before finding itself in a dodgy back street garage in Surrey.

By this stage it was quite tired looking on the outside, I bought the car, fairly cheaply, to be fair it's needed a fair few jobs that it was misdesribed with but I do love the car, it's a very nice example, with the bodywork sorted it will be an extremely good car.

So what's up with the bodywork?

Well other than the usual dings, luckily mainly on the badge panel and front wings, both of which I've replaced, the lower front wings were totally gone, some of the worst I had seen for a while, repairable but no point when I found a pair of outstanding turbo wings for pennies. Also the sills were suspect mainly due to the rust in the lower rear wings, luckily on stripping the drivers side off I've discovered that it's essentially solid, there will be some small repairs needed to the wing, but the sill will be ok, I will still be endoscoping the sill section incase they are rusting from the inside (more on this soon) I expect to be doing very little on the drivers side.

The passenger side is where the work is needed, and this will be the informative bit, the sill and the wing section will need removing and the inner repairing before replacing.

Now that sounds so very simple but sadly it's anything but. The first point is these cars are halfway between a modern car and a classic car in terms of structure, they are a very quirky car structure wise, the shell is essentially a 924 shell, originally conceived in the early 1970's, at this point the British were producing technological marvels such as the MGB and Morris Marina, which in a sense makes it so astonishing that this shell with relatively few modifications made it through to the Mid 90's in 968 form, unfortunately there was a price to pay for those modifications and cosmetic add ons, and one of the biggest prices seems to be that even though well rust proofed and galvanised they do rust, and they rust from the inside out.

My next post will be where the pictures start, it will have to wait for this weekend I'm afraid so hopefully I've whetted your appetite and not bored the pants off you! The point to note is this is not going to be the cheap way to repair a 944, quite the opposite sadly doing the job right is labour intensive and therefore expensive, this is why cheap repair quotes should always be viewed with suspicion as you will see the problems often tend to be hidden away, just covering them up may mask the issue but it won't last long and seriously affects the strength of the shell!

_________________
Current toys:
944S2 Zyclamen Pearl Magazine featured.
Audi Quattro 20v Winter car
MGCGT University motors special
MGB LE run out Californian import
1966 MGBGT 3 synchro
1976 Midget Oselli engine.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 sill repairs, my car, some pictures
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:40 pm
Posts: 190
Location: Ripon
TIPEC membership: 0
This will be interesting , where abouts are you in e Yorks ? my car will need some work at some point I am sure so would be interested in you having a look and see what your thoughts are.
I am in Ripon so not far away.

Nick


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 sill repairs, my car, some pictures
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Dreary East Yorkshire for now.
TIPEC membership: 0
Hi Nick I'm in Driffield,

Anyones always welcome over at the workshop.

_________________
Current toys:
944S2 Zyclamen Pearl Magazine featured.
Audi Quattro 20v Winter car
MGCGT University motors special
MGB LE run out Californian import
1966 MGBGT 3 synchro
1976 Midget Oselli engine.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 sill repairs, my car, some pictures
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:02 pm
Posts: 138
Location: Falkirk
TIPEC membership: 0
Hi
Looking forward to following your work. I'm part way through rebuilding the inner sill section on my 87 944 lux. Young kids and my work do not add up to much spare time unfortunately, so a bit of a slow burner! :bounce:

Brian

_________________
1987 alpine white lux
2011 Honda CR-Z Hybrid
*empty space where a corrado should be*


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 sill repairs, my car, some pictures
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 9:29 pm
Posts: 657
Location: West Cumbria
TIPEC membership: 5409
Pictures-Pictures-Pictures !!

_________________
88 Porsche 944 Turbo S Black
54 997 Carrera 2S Artic Silver
BMW E46 318 SE Titan Silver


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 sill repairs, my car, some pictures
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Dreary East Yorkshire for now.
TIPEC membership: 0
Right as promised the pictures!

This car is a pretty good example actually of what I hoped to show, sadly (sounds crazy I know considering it's my own car) the bad side isn't quite as bad as I'd hoped to be able to show you all the structure inside as it was dissected, as it happens the drivers side needs a small repair to the lower wing which will generate some good pictures actually as the rear of it will need new captive bolts and the lower set of captive screws need replacing (more on that soon as I have a plan!) on the 944s I've seen repaired this area is a really good indication of the quality of repairs, if they have bodged the captives up and they usually have then what's the inside of the sill like?

So here is the drivers side:



Here is the jacking point dimple usually missing from bodged up sills and also the repro panels:



Here is the rear wing lower section, as you can see there is corrosion here. A later picture will show what this external corrosion looks like once the panels bare:



And this is behind that panel, as you can see a succession of bodged repairs have taken their toll on the panel holding 2 captive bolts, it's basically rotted away, so as well as repairing the outer skin that you see I need to make a frame up for inside to hold these captives.



Now we jump to the bad side, this shows the start of pulling the paint off, this is the area that they usually go and sadly the usual way of repairing this is either to bog it up with filler giving a years MOT pass or just plate over and bog up with filler giving a couple of years MOT pass:



A closer Pic, doesn't look too bad does it? A bit of filler should cover that up:



Unfortunately on cutting the first inspection hole, this one on the rear wing you can see that the rot has started to spread, this is catchable at this stage with a minimum of welding, by catching it properly here and treating it against future corrosion we can save the floor, seatbelt mounts and inner sill area. In other words by tackling the job early at the first sign of bubbling we've saved a massive amount of labour and a fair bit of materials, plus on any other car reduced the job from basically stripping the whole interior out to weld to being able to do localised repairs, then skin back over and do localised paint as opposed to a full respray which a sill job can easily stretch to (as it has in my cars case as not only is the colour a bugger to match every panel has a mark on it, it seems silly to do half a job).



This is the sill section, again just minimal corrosion on the lower half of the inner sill:



And here is one of the potential causes, this drain tube can get misrouted, disconnected from the roof or damaged by shoddy repair attempts, at which point it funnels water straight in to the sills, luckily my car has escaped these fates and the damage has been caused by the other design fault covered later, by the way the teardrop shaped splatter isn't moisture it's old anti corrosion overspray:



So what's next?

Well next week the job begins, I've only been playing at it up till now, so the passenger side sill comes off, the repair panel is made up and made to fit, the rear wing repair panels are made up and made to fit, in removing the last of the old sill the situation inside will become more apparent, I suspect that the inner sill will grind down and repair in two small sections but I'm ready with an inner sill just incase. Then it's a case of building it all up, repair the front wings, fit the front wings up for panel gaps, remove them again to paint inside them, then refit them and paint the car.

Sounds easy!

_________________
Current toys:
944S2 Zyclamen Pearl Magazine featured.
Audi Quattro 20v Winter car
MGCGT University motors special
MGB LE run out Californian import
1966 MGBGT 3 synchro
1976 Midget Oselli engine.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 sill repairs, my car, some pictures
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:52 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Banbury
TIPEC membership: 0
Im just about to do exactly the same job and I was wondering if you have now done this and if you used Porsche sills or repro panels.

:D

Jen

_________________
944 S2 Guards Red


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 sill repairs, my car, some pictures
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:07 am
Posts: 2381
TIPEC membership: 0
Iv got 2 oem sills. Which I will use. But what you can see with the guenon e ones is the slight cuver leading from the rear in to the rear wheel arch which I'm not sure the repo ones have.

_________________
Zermatt 88 944 turbo
Augtronic ecu&map
3071gtx/0.63tial V band/38mm Dpw
3" fastroad exhaust
80lb injectors
Stage2 intercooler
Apexi ebc.
9xx quick shift/ front shift/fuel pump
M030 brakes/Coilovers/30mm front roll
18" JARA cups 225F/285R


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 sill repairs, my car, some pictures
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:46 pm
Posts: 560
Location: bedfordshire
TIPEC membership: 5385
i have just repaired my sills and the repair sections i bought were not needed, luckily a small patch did the job. the repair panels are now on ebay at a saving on the new price.

_________________
[ stuart
944s2
944 convertable
TR7
TVR 300m[sold
MGB rusted away
Z1000
GSX 1100r/i]
star gemini 250 (kart)
sisley cobra 100 (kart)
http://stuarthusband.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 sill repairs, my car, some pictures
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Dreary East Yorkshire for now.
TIPEC membership: 0
As with all my metalwork I build my own, to be honest these sills are not difficult to fab up properly, the ones that came on ebay a while back (that I bought some of to have a look) were a joke, nasty nasty pieces of junk, to be honest if I hadn't been told that they had been made for a 944 I'd never have guessed!

_________________
Current toys:
944S2 Zyclamen Pearl Magazine featured.
Audi Quattro 20v Winter car
MGCGT University motors special
MGB LE run out Californian import
1966 MGBGT 3 synchro
1976 Midget Oselli engine.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 sill repairs, my car, some pictures
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 9:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:52 pm
Posts: 59
TIPEC membership: 4881
The n/s sill is no longer available I got the o/s from my local opc and arranged for a fabrication company to make a copy
for the body shop .

brian


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 sill repairs, my car, some pictures
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:50 pm
Posts: 110
Location: Washington
TIPEC membership: 0
Are there any decent sill replacements available? I'm looking to get mine tackled over the summer and not sure what the best option is!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 sill repairs, my car, some pictures
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:07 am
Posts: 2381
TIPEC membership: 0
I would take the advice off the body shop / repire place. Most will probley want 2 cut along the top off the stone chipping and renew.

New sill are triangle shape with one side missing. However new Porsche sills have drain holes in them and small part off the floor, Iv got some pics on my phone I'm happy 2 email some one who can then then upload them.

Its the floor off the sills that rust start, and then works its way up

_________________
Zermatt 88 944 turbo
Augtronic ecu&map
3071gtx/0.63tial V band/38mm Dpw
3" fastroad exhaust
80lb injectors
Stage2 intercooler
Apexi ebc.
9xx quick shift/ front shift/fuel pump
M030 brakes/Coilovers/30mm front roll
18" JARA cups 225F/285R


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 sill repairs, my car, some pictures
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:50 pm
Posts: 110
Location: Washington
TIPEC membership: 0
Please find attached some images of the sills as mentioned by T3rra above.







(ps, thanks mate)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Porsche 944 sill repairs, my car, some pictures
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 9:32 am
Posts: 97
TIPEC membership: 0
this thread is a good find ,planning on getting my sills done in the next 6 months ,I'd looked at those sills on ebay and they look ok ,now I'm not so sure

I stuck a digital camera down my door opening vent hole and took some pics ,the rust is only at the back and not too bad really , its all on the outer skin ,the inner skin looks perfect and also anything above the stone protection line looks perfect ,looking forward to getting this done

my rear quarters need a little work also theyre not too bad ,but shame theres no repair patch panel for them as I think they'll
need cutting out

anybody recommend a good bodyshop ,that actually care what theyre doing for this job around the northwest/manchester?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group